In my opinion, no matter who wins this coming November presidential SELECTION, social divides in the United States have reached a point of no return, echoing conditions observed in Weimar Germany nearly a 100 years ago. There will be allegations of electoral rigging and Russian or Ukrainian interference etc, no matter the outcome.
If Trump wins, lawfare would be used to bring any semblance of governance to a standstill. Marxist elements will stoke anarchy in major cities. If it is rigged in Kamala’s favour, inflation, crime and unfettered illegal immigration will simply skyrocket. These conditions will be replicated throughout the Western world. In fact, they are already knee-deep in the quicksand of oblivion.
In a worst-case scenario, martial law may be instituted to prevent civil war and/or curb frequent spells of anarchy. Some states will surely draft plans to secede from the Union. One way out would be to engineer a major false flag a la 9/11, in a desperate attempt to unite the people.
But how do you see it? Are you expecting any surprises outside what has been gamed out in various commentaries?
I may publish a commentary on this subject in a few days time.
I agree that we're going to see a lot of internal strife, whoever ends up being president of the USA. If it looks like Trump is gaining ground, I expect BLM and Antifa to come out of their holes.
Am I expecting any surprises outside of the election? Yes, in three areas:
1. God said the prophetic fulfillments of the autumn festivals in Leviticus 23 will happen without warning, just like Noah's flood and the destruction of Sodom. 2024/2025 is the 70th anniversary of the Jubilee cycle, which (I believe) is auspicious. https://standinfaith.org/when-is-the-next-jubilee-year/
Intriguing read from Thomas Noss. Only the second writer I have come across who subscribes to the doctrine of pre-existence, cept that the prior explanation of pre-existence which I had read precludes the notion of a "two-phase" earth (before and after Adam).
Origen of Alexandria quoted these two scriptures to support his arguments over pre-existence (note that there are several positions on pre-existence).
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. (Romans 9:11-14)
Jeremiah 1:5: Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Whatever its merits, the Talmud has severely degraded early notions about pre-existence. In fact, there is one popular doctrine among "Christian Nationalists" which was entirely a Talmudic fabrication. I will write on this in due time as well.
Rom 9:11-14 doesn't relate to pre-existence. That verse deals with God's ordination of believers in Christ (true Israel) as His chosen people rather than the Jews. NT describes believers as chosen in Christ before time began.
Jer. 1:5 doesn't deal with pre-existence either. It deals with God's omniscience and foreordination. God is omniscient so He knows all things past, present, and future and thus could say he knew Jeremiah before he was born. And, God has special callings for all of us which he planned before time began for us to walk in (Eph 2:10, Rom 8:30).
The Talmud has no place in Christianity. Christ condemned it when he condemned the Jews for exalting their tradition (i.e. the Talmud) above the word of God (Mk 7:8). Beyond that, the Talmud teaches that Christ is burning in hell in hot excrement, that his mother Mary is a whore, that non-Jews are cattle, and even normalizes pedophilia. I was blown away after seeing rabbis on YT read from the Talmud about pedophilia.
To argue for another earth before the one Adam and Eve were placed in requires specific scriptural support which I have never seen offered.
Thanks for articulating the position. Enjoyed your article btw.
Oliver, my theory of pre-existence 'in an imagined spiritual state' is based on a few Bible verses. But I admit it's based on logically 'connecting the dots' in matters the Bible doesn't fully explain.
Rather than being a tangential, trivial topic, I believe understanding how, when, and why we were created is fundamental to identifying and overcoming our adversaries in the spiritual realm.
Since the Biblical evidence is scarce, almost all scholars and theologians avoid treading in this space. Instead, they put their fingers in their ears and pretend there was nothing before Genesis 1:2, when the earth was cast down in the katabole event following the pre-Adamic eon that Peter referred to in 2 Peter 3:5-6,
"the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished."
This wasn't speaking about Noah's flood--which didn't affect the heavens--but rather a judgment against both the heavens and the earth, just as the next verse (2 Pet 3:7) says, "But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly."
- Job 38:7 tells us that ALL the celestial sons of God shouted for joy when the earth was created. So, there weren't any evil celestial beings at that time. Therefore, they were created blameless, but then the Devil and some (or all?) of them fell into sin.
- A thinking person is forced to make some assumptions when they ask, "How and when did the serpent in the garden become evil, and why did YHWH allow him into the garden of Eden to tempt Eve?" As you correctly said, God "knows all things past, present, and future."
-- How and why did they became evil? Ezekiel 28:15-16 suggests the reason was because of "the abundance of your trade you were internally filled with violence, and you sinned; therefore I have cast you as profane from the mountain of God, and I have destroyed you, O covering cherub."
-- It's assumed that when Paul said "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" in Romans 3:23 that he was referring to humans. But then he wrote in Colossians 1:19-20, "For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross."
--- So, what things in heaven need to be reconciled to God? How and why does the Savior's earthly blood reconcile heavenly things/beings?
--- Ephesians 3:9-11 tells us: 'the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things, was that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord'
---- Why does God care what the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places think? And how does God make his wisdom known to them through the church?
All these questions force a thinking person to logically 'connect the dots,' gathering clues and assembling a puzzle in areas the Bible doesn't fully explain.
Finally, regarding the debate about how to understand God's foreknowledge--whether we spiritually existed in ages past or God 'knew' us because he's omniscient and dwells outside time--the Greek word proginosko can be understood either way.
But, because of the questions I've raised in this response, and others I haven't included for brevity, I've concluded our spirits actually pre-existed, they sinned, and the subsequent Adamic creation is God's method of redemption for them.
Everyone is free to disagree with my conclusions, which I freely admit are based on scant Biblical clues and 'connecting the dots.' But, if they're a thinking and honest person, they'll need to provide an alternate explanation that explains how the serpent became evil, why the omniscient, loving, and holy God allowed him into the Garden of Eden--resulting in mankind's sin and death--and why God's ages-long mystery plan is to use the church to make known his wisdom to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places?
Wow. Plenty of food for thought. You could just add a few paras and it becomes a thought-provoking article by itself. I may even cross-post it here. Please think about it.
First thing that came to mind about why God allowed that snake into the garden, was to test them. Would they obey His voice, or another's? His one stipulation could have been followed quite easily, but Eve chose to listen to the serpent. The answer should have been, "No, God said not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." Same thing going on all throughout history. "Choose ye this day whom you will serve". As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Sadly, the bulk of mankind is choosing to serve the serpent, forsaking their creator. They want to live by their own rules and imaginations. Everyone was given free will to choose. I have a favorite "proverb": Life: the time God gives us to determine where we will spend eternity. OUR CHOICE.
Crystal, you're right, it's all about testing us to determine if we'll choose to obey God or not. But why is this test necessary? Most will say it's because God doesn't just want robots, he wants free moral agents who love and obey out of their own free will.
And I agree, but there's also a much bigger reason.
Here's my thesis:
1. Before Adam; before God said "Let there be light;" and before Genesis 1:2, there was an angelic rebellion that defiled heaven. The Devil and his followers were created blameless (Job 38:7), but had free will and chose to rebel against YHWH (Eze 28:15-16 and Isa 14:12-15).
This resulted in the complete desolation of that creation, making the earth "without form and void," in darkness. The Greek word for this event is katabole, or down-casting, and it's usually translated as 'the foundation' of the world, as in these two verses:
Rev 13:8, "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
Rev 17:8 And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.
2. In anticipation of God's condemnation, the Devil lodged a legal accusation against God before the court (or council) of heaven, accusing God of unfairness. (If you're not familiar with the council of heaven, see https://www.thedivinecouncil.com )
I assume the Devil's accusation stated that God is omniscient, and knows the end from the beginning. Therefore, he knew he was creating beings who had the propensity to rebel. And worse, God knew they would rebel and he created them anyway. So, the Devil said, it's God's fault because he made us this way, or, "We're not responsible, God is."
3. Before the desolation of the first earth, the Father and Jesus devised the everlasting covenant in the blood of the Lamb. Before God said, "Let there be light" everyone who will ever be saved had their name written in the Lamb's book of life. (Rev 13:8) About 4000 years later, Jesus eternally finalized the everlasting covenant by offering the literal blood of God for the redemption, reconciliation, and regeneration of everyone who becomes a partaker in his resurrection life. Believers are no longer mere humans (1 Cor 3:3-4), they're 'begotten-again' of God (1 Pet 1:3).
4. Now, back to the Devil's legal charge against God. . .
The salvation and transformation of humans, from sinners to saints, proves (to the council of heaven) that freewill beings are not destined to sin and rebel. We can choose to follow the path of righteousness. In fact, millions of faithful believers (since Abel) will even die for their faith before the heavenly court convenes and God is finally vindicated before the heavenly court. (Rev 6:11, Dan 7:10,22,26)
Then, finally, the Devil and his followers will be cast down from heaven (Rev 12) and 'The kingdom of the world will become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.' (Rev 11:15)
"Crystal, you're right, it's all about testing us to determine if we'll choose to obey God or not. But why is this test necessary?...
And worse, God knew they would rebel and he created them anyway."
Rom 9:20-22 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
You're pretty close to questioning the prerogative of God and impugning his character.
"Therefore, he knew he was creating beings who had the propensity to rebel."
Where's the scripture that angels were created fallen with a tendency to sin? Further, Adam, in his original state, did not have "the propensity to rebel." Once man fell and became corrupted, and at that point only, as Paul makes clear in Romans 7, did he have a "propensity to rebel." The fact that Adam sinned or some of the angels rebelled is, by itself, not proof of a "propensity to rebel." Having a capacity to sin is not the same as a propensity to sin.
"Biblical evidence is scarce" - Translation: No scriptural support.
Logically "connecting the dots" sans scripture is a euphemism for speculation rather than biblical doctrine.
"This wasn't speaking about Noah's flood--which didn't affect the heavens..."
2 Peter 3:7 is clearly speaking of Noah's flood. It also makes no mention of the heavens being destroyed.
The context is dealing with the certainty of God's word ("Where is the promise of his coming?,"; 2 Peter 2:4) for which Peter adduces examples. God's word established the original creation, God's word brought judgment in Noah's day and the earth was flooded as God had promised, and that very same word of God is certain to put an end to the old/present creation that the new might come forth.
The "heavens of old" (2 Peter 3:5) is clearly a reference to the original creation.
"Job 38:7 tells us that ALL the celestial sons of God shouted for joy when the earth was created. So, there weren't any evil celestial beings at that time. "
The sons of God in that verse is a reference to angels not man. See Job 1:6, 2:1
You made an appeal to anthropology, which is relevant, but the problem is there is no scripture which supports the notion of man in a pre-Adamic "spiritual" state. Man, by definition, is formed from the dust of the ground (Gen 2:7). And, Paul is very clear, Adam was the first man (1 Cor 15:45-47).
"So, what things in heaven need to be reconciled to God? How and why does the Savior's earthly blood reconcile heavenly things/beings?"
This bears no relevance to the discussion, but I'll address it anyway. Heaven(s) is not restricted to what the Bible calls the third heaven, which is where God resides on His throne. The immediate atmosphere above us constitutes a heaven, and then you have the expanse about that, extending into space which also constitutes another heaven—hence, three heavens.
The point being the verse applies to the reconciliation of all elements in this present creation to God through the redemptive work of Christ who put an end to the old creation in himself and ushered in the new.
Wow your posts continue to strike subjects which stop me midstream from any activity. I must and will get back to this post when I'm back from the field :)
I'm curious what you're doing 'in the field?' I know you're retired from the Army, so is this off-grid or wilderness preparedness training? Also, what state are you in? I'm in Virginia.
Saying that, I can't see California and Texas ever fighting on the same side in a hypothetical civil war.
If anything, the more likely scenario is Texas seceding and becoming an independent sovereign nation once again without the regime in DC being able to do much about it.
The thing is that the current WEF stooge acting as Texas Governor will have to be deposed.
This may or may not involve violence but either way, Texas will not be part of whatever new nation emerges after the second American Civil war.
Said nation can definitely be something very similar to the republic of Gilead but I hope that won't be the case.
If the “debate” is anything to go by, the machine will not allow a Trump victory. I think he may be the first President to be jailed. YAH has told us how it will end, the details are just playing out on our TV’s.
I can't see Americans getting off their fat, stupid, lazy asses and changing anything at all, no matter what happens. Most are not interested in what is really going on, and only a tiny percentage of those who care actually do anything besides complain. No, there will be no civil war. Brazilification will continue to accelerate.
Good afternoon, Maj Tom, what is not an abstraction (good point that Christian is an abstraction as well) are the Christians at the southern border aiding and abetting the invasion. I know they are Christians because they're adorned in their Halloween costumes for all to see. Those aren't Marxist feeding the hordes.Those are bonified religious organizations that show up daily. Citizens are angry and want to know how they avoid the pooper, scooper laws. Also, just as an aside have you noticed the hordes appear to be above the law in that they are able to commit the crimes of littering and loitering with impunity. Why is this? We have already moved from the rule of law to the barbaric and primitive rule of men. In addition, we have moved from individualism to the more primitive collectivism. This is why no individual in the group/horde is ever singled out for littering or loitering. Most American cities now implement some form of communist style policing where it's rule by consensus instead of the former which was personal responsibility and accountability. This has all come to pass because religion was given the moral high ground and given a respect they have not earned and do not deserve.
There is no "Western World". Citizens in the UK are being imprisoned for thought crimes. We all watched in horror as "Western" countries pistol whipped their citizens for not having a dirty piece of fabric up over their breathing apparatus's. The United States is the only country on earth that matters as it is the only country which ever recognized individual rights. It is truly mankind's only hope and is in the process of transforming from a country founded on the individual to a country founded on the group. This means every man who fought and died in our wars died for absolutely nothing. America is currently at war right now. It is an ideological war. Does the individual have the right to live for his own sake? Can he wake up free focusing on his needs and his own goals and achievements, or is he only allowed to steal snippets of his existence (when no one is looking) as long as the weaklings are'nt clamoring for him to meet their needs. The Christians say no. He must "serve" and "subordinate" himself to the weak, corrupt, diseased, ugly, smelly beasts. He owes them by virtue of the fact that he is not a weak, corrupt, dirty, diseased, ugly, smelly beast.
Dana, I agree we're now in an ideological war. I'm confused by what you wrote about Christians and "weak, corrupt, diseased, ugly, smelly beasts."
I looked at your profile and you seem to be a patriot. I'm a military-retired Vietnam combat veteran, so I consider myself a patriot too. But, the truth is that our leaders have conspired with Satanic globalists to destroy the America we loved and fought for. That America is gone.
Looking toward the future, the Bible says all nations will be part of the end-time beast government, and all will be destroyed by 'the stone that was cut out by no human hand' in Daniel chapter 2.
So, I encourage you to place your faith in God, not in America. Its days are numbered.
Good afternoon, Maj Tom! Thank you so much for your service and your willingness to risk your life for freedom ."Globalist" is an abstract thought and therefore a convenient tool to scapegoat with. The dominant ideology of both the left and the right in the United States is "We are our brother's keeper". The left's version is "We're all in this together", which is the exact same message just worded differently. This is the antithesis of America's founding documents. America's founding fathers built a government which set men free from other men. The Uniparty wants to chain us together. They have no real interest in the U.S. Constitution. Their interests are in the moral teachings of the Christian religion which advocates stealing from the strong to uphold the weak. The more diseased the weak are the more virtuous they become. It's an ideology of moral perversion. It's the reason we see the Christians, not globalist feeding hordes of destructive types sitting atop mounds of filth and garbage in every major U.S. city. It's the reason we see Christians, not globalist down at the southern border aiding and abetting the invasion of the United States. Paul Craig Roberts states "they're only interested in the "wafting". This is where the clouds part and they are wafted to the holy lands, or wherever it is they go to. The total destruction of the United States by this moral perversion does not need to happen. It's all a result of a corrupt mind too cowardly to face existence.
Dana, just as "globalist" is an abstract term, so is the word "Christian." I am a disciple of Yeshua the Messiah, so I am labeled by the word Christian, but I don't know any Christians that identify with any of the things you say Christians advocate.
- I don't support stealing from the strong to support the weak. That sounds like socialism.
- I don't support feeding hordes of destructive types sitting atop mounds of filth and garbage in every major U.S. city.
- I don't support the invasion of the United States across southern border. That's a strategy of anti-American enemies.
- True Christians support morality, not moral perversion.
I agree that we're going to see a lot of internal strife, whoever ends up being president of the USA. If it looks like Trump is gaining ground, I expect BLM and Antifa to come out of their holes.
Am I expecting any surprises outside of the election? Yes, in three areas:
1. God said the prophetic fulfillments of the autumn festivals in Leviticus 23 will happen without warning, just like Noah's flood and the destruction of Sodom. 2024/2025 is the 70th anniversary of the Jubilee cycle, which (I believe) is auspicious. https://standinfaith.org/when-is-the-next-jubilee-year/
2. Total economic collapse. https://shorturl.at/6LDsc
3. WW3 is imminent. https://substack.com/@thomasnoss/note/c-68752524
Thanks for the feedback. I largely agree.
Intriguing read from Thomas Noss. Only the second writer I have come across who subscribes to the doctrine of pre-existence, cept that the prior explanation of pre-existence which I had read precludes the notion of a "two-phase" earth (before and after Adam).
Noticed he offered no scriptural support for the "doctrine" of pre-existence nor for us committing sin before Adam in an imagined spiritual state.
Origen of Alexandria quoted these two scriptures to support his arguments over pre-existence (note that there are several positions on pre-existence).
For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth; It was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. (Romans 9:11-14)
Jeremiah 1:5: Before I formed thee in the belly, I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb, I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Whatever its merits, the Talmud has severely degraded early notions about pre-existence. In fact, there is one popular doctrine among "Christian Nationalists" which was entirely a Talmudic fabrication. I will write on this in due time as well.
Rom 9:11-14 doesn't relate to pre-existence. That verse deals with God's ordination of believers in Christ (true Israel) as His chosen people rather than the Jews. NT describes believers as chosen in Christ before time began.
Jer. 1:5 doesn't deal with pre-existence either. It deals with God's omniscience and foreordination. God is omniscient so He knows all things past, present, and future and thus could say he knew Jeremiah before he was born. And, God has special callings for all of us which he planned before time began for us to walk in (Eph 2:10, Rom 8:30).
The Talmud has no place in Christianity. Christ condemned it when he condemned the Jews for exalting their tradition (i.e. the Talmud) above the word of God (Mk 7:8). Beyond that, the Talmud teaches that Christ is burning in hell in hot excrement, that his mother Mary is a whore, that non-Jews are cattle, and even normalizes pedophilia. I was blown away after seeing rabbis on YT read from the Talmud about pedophilia.
To argue for another earth before the one Adam and Eve were placed in requires specific scriptural support which I have never seen offered.
Thanks for articulating the position. Enjoyed your article btw.
Oliver, my theory of pre-existence 'in an imagined spiritual state' is based on a few Bible verses. But I admit it's based on logically 'connecting the dots' in matters the Bible doesn't fully explain.
Rather than being a tangential, trivial topic, I believe understanding how, when, and why we were created is fundamental to identifying and overcoming our adversaries in the spiritual realm.
Since the Biblical evidence is scarce, almost all scholars and theologians avoid treading in this space. Instead, they put their fingers in their ears and pretend there was nothing before Genesis 1:2, when the earth was cast down in the katabole event following the pre-Adamic eon that Peter referred to in 2 Peter 3:5-6,
"the heavens existed long ago, and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God, and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished."
This wasn't speaking about Noah's flood--which didn't affect the heavens--but rather a judgment against both the heavens and the earth, just as the next verse (2 Pet 3:7) says, "But by the same word the heavens and earth that now exist are stored up for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly."
- Job 38:7 tells us that ALL the celestial sons of God shouted for joy when the earth was created. So, there weren't any evil celestial beings at that time. Therefore, they were created blameless, but then the Devil and some (or all?) of them fell into sin.
- A thinking person is forced to make some assumptions when they ask, "How and when did the serpent in the garden become evil, and why did YHWH allow him into the garden of Eden to tempt Eve?" As you correctly said, God "knows all things past, present, and future."
-- How and why did they became evil? Ezekiel 28:15-16 suggests the reason was because of "the abundance of your trade you were internally filled with violence, and you sinned; therefore I have cast you as profane from the mountain of God, and I have destroyed you, O covering cherub."
-- It's assumed that when Paul said "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" in Romans 3:23 that he was referring to humans. But then he wrote in Colossians 1:19-20, "For in him all the fullness of God was pleased to dwell, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether on earth or in heaven, making peace by the blood of his cross."
--- So, what things in heaven need to be reconciled to God? How and why does the Savior's earthly blood reconcile heavenly things/beings?
--- Ephesians 3:9-11 tells us: 'the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God, who created all things, was that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places. This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord'
---- Why does God care what the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places think? And how does God make his wisdom known to them through the church?
All these questions force a thinking person to logically 'connect the dots,' gathering clues and assembling a puzzle in areas the Bible doesn't fully explain.
Finally, regarding the debate about how to understand God's foreknowledge--whether we spiritually existed in ages past or God 'knew' us because he's omniscient and dwells outside time--the Greek word proginosko can be understood either way.
But, because of the questions I've raised in this response, and others I haven't included for brevity, I've concluded our spirits actually pre-existed, they sinned, and the subsequent Adamic creation is God's method of redemption for them.
Everyone is free to disagree with my conclusions, which I freely admit are based on scant Biblical clues and 'connecting the dots.' But, if they're a thinking and honest person, they'll need to provide an alternate explanation that explains how the serpent became evil, why the omniscient, loving, and holy God allowed him into the Garden of Eden--resulting in mankind's sin and death--and why God's ages-long mystery plan is to use the church to make known his wisdom to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places?
Wow. Plenty of food for thought. You could just add a few paras and it becomes a thought-provoking article by itself. I may even cross-post it here. Please think about it.
First thing that came to mind about why God allowed that snake into the garden, was to test them. Would they obey His voice, or another's? His one stipulation could have been followed quite easily, but Eve chose to listen to the serpent. The answer should have been, "No, God said not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." Same thing going on all throughout history. "Choose ye this day whom you will serve". As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord. Sadly, the bulk of mankind is choosing to serve the serpent, forsaking their creator. They want to live by their own rules and imaginations. Everyone was given free will to choose. I have a favorite "proverb": Life: the time God gives us to determine where we will spend eternity. OUR CHOICE.
Crystal, you're right, it's all about testing us to determine if we'll choose to obey God or not. But why is this test necessary? Most will say it's because God doesn't just want robots, he wants free moral agents who love and obey out of their own free will.
And I agree, but there's also a much bigger reason.
Here's my thesis:
1. Before Adam; before God said "Let there be light;" and before Genesis 1:2, there was an angelic rebellion that defiled heaven. The Devil and his followers were created blameless (Job 38:7), but had free will and chose to rebel against YHWH (Eze 28:15-16 and Isa 14:12-15).
This resulted in the complete desolation of that creation, making the earth "without form and void," in darkness. The Greek word for this event is katabole, or down-casting, and it's usually translated as 'the foundation' of the world, as in these two verses:
Rev 13:8, "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."
Rev 17:8 And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come.
2. In anticipation of God's condemnation, the Devil lodged a legal accusation against God before the court (or council) of heaven, accusing God of unfairness. (If you're not familiar with the council of heaven, see https://www.thedivinecouncil.com )
I assume the Devil's accusation stated that God is omniscient, and knows the end from the beginning. Therefore, he knew he was creating beings who had the propensity to rebel. And worse, God knew they would rebel and he created them anyway. So, the Devil said, it's God's fault because he made us this way, or, "We're not responsible, God is."
3. Before the desolation of the first earth, the Father and Jesus devised the everlasting covenant in the blood of the Lamb. Before God said, "Let there be light" everyone who will ever be saved had their name written in the Lamb's book of life. (Rev 13:8) About 4000 years later, Jesus eternally finalized the everlasting covenant by offering the literal blood of God for the redemption, reconciliation, and regeneration of everyone who becomes a partaker in his resurrection life. Believers are no longer mere humans (1 Cor 3:3-4), they're 'begotten-again' of God (1 Pet 1:3).
4. Now, back to the Devil's legal charge against God. . .
The salvation and transformation of humans, from sinners to saints, proves (to the council of heaven) that freewill beings are not destined to sin and rebel. We can choose to follow the path of righteousness. In fact, millions of faithful believers (since Abel) will even die for their faith before the heavenly court convenes and God is finally vindicated before the heavenly court. (Rev 6:11, Dan 7:10,22,26)
Then, finally, the Devil and his followers will be cast down from heaven (Rev 12) and 'The kingdom of the world will become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he shall reign forever and ever.' (Rev 11:15)
"Crystal, you're right, it's all about testing us to determine if we'll choose to obey God or not. But why is this test necessary?...
And worse, God knew they would rebel and he created them anyway."
Rom 9:20-22 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
You're pretty close to questioning the prerogative of God and impugning his character.
"Therefore, he knew he was creating beings who had the propensity to rebel."
Where's the scripture that angels were created fallen with a tendency to sin? Further, Adam, in his original state, did not have "the propensity to rebel." Once man fell and became corrupted, and at that point only, as Paul makes clear in Romans 7, did he have a "propensity to rebel." The fact that Adam sinned or some of the angels rebelled is, by itself, not proof of a "propensity to rebel." Having a capacity to sin is not the same as a propensity to sin.
"Biblical evidence is scarce" - Translation: No scriptural support.
Logically "connecting the dots" sans scripture is a euphemism for speculation rather than biblical doctrine.
"This wasn't speaking about Noah's flood--which didn't affect the heavens..."
2 Peter 3:7 is clearly speaking of Noah's flood. It also makes no mention of the heavens being destroyed.
The context is dealing with the certainty of God's word ("Where is the promise of his coming?,"; 2 Peter 2:4) for which Peter adduces examples. God's word established the original creation, God's word brought judgment in Noah's day and the earth was flooded as God had promised, and that very same word of God is certain to put an end to the old/present creation that the new might come forth.
The "heavens of old" (2 Peter 3:5) is clearly a reference to the original creation.
Multiple expositors testify to the same: https://biblehub.com/commentaries/2_peter/3-5.htm
"Job 38:7 tells us that ALL the celestial sons of God shouted for joy when the earth was created. So, there weren't any evil celestial beings at that time. "
The sons of God in that verse is a reference to angels not man. See Job 1:6, 2:1
You made an appeal to anthropology, which is relevant, but the problem is there is no scripture which supports the notion of man in a pre-Adamic "spiritual" state. Man, by definition, is formed from the dust of the ground (Gen 2:7). And, Paul is very clear, Adam was the first man (1 Cor 15:45-47).
"So, what things in heaven need to be reconciled to God? How and why does the Savior's earthly blood reconcile heavenly things/beings?"
This bears no relevance to the discussion, but I'll address it anyway. Heaven(s) is not restricted to what the Bible calls the third heaven, which is where God resides on His throne. The immediate atmosphere above us constitutes a heaven, and then you have the expanse about that, extending into space which also constitutes another heaven—hence, three heavens.
The point being the verse applies to the reconciliation of all elements in this present creation to God through the redemptive work of Christ who put an end to the old creation in himself and ushered in the new.
Oliver, how would you answer these questions?
1. Why did God create the Devil if he knew he'd rebel?
2. Why did YHWH allow the serpent into the garden of Eden, knowing he'd tempt mankind into sin?
Rom 9:20-22 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
Ps 115:3 3 But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.
But he is preaching eschatological realization of the new creation.
Wow your posts continue to strike subjects which stop me midstream from any activity. I must and will get back to this post when I'm back from the field :)
Please do share your thoughts when you are ready.
I'm curious what you're doing 'in the field?' I know you're retired from the Army, so is this off-grid or wilderness preparedness training? Also, what state are you in? I'm in Virginia.
Interesting topic to contemplate on. I think Hollywood presents the scenario the enemy would like to see from their perspective:
The President (which is very evidently Trump) tries to go for a third term in breach of the constitution and things escalate quickly from there:
https://screenrant.com/what-caused-civil-war-2024-movie/
Saying that, I can't see California and Texas ever fighting on the same side in a hypothetical civil war.
If anything, the more likely scenario is Texas seceding and becoming an independent sovereign nation once again without the regime in DC being able to do much about it.
The thing is that the current WEF stooge acting as Texas Governor will have to be deposed.
This may or may not involve violence but either way, Texas will not be part of whatever new nation emerges after the second American Civil war.
Said nation can definitely be something very similar to the republic of Gilead but I hope that won't be the case.
Yes. Texas is a top contender for secession under any scenario. That's why they are trying to change the demographics there.
If the “debate” is anything to go by, the machine will not allow a Trump victory. I think he may be the first President to be jailed. YAH has told us how it will end, the details are just playing out on our TV’s.
The question of whether it is needed or necessary is overwhelmingly YES. Everyone in the world will perish if the system is left as is.
This scenario playing out through an EAS system is quite entertaining...and mildly realistic (at least the beginning of it):
https://youtu.be/RNGSEgs_nhg
I can't see Americans getting off their fat, stupid, lazy asses and changing anything at all, no matter what happens. Most are not interested in what is really going on, and only a tiny percentage of those who care actually do anything besides complain. No, there will be no civil war. Brazilification will continue to accelerate.
Good afternoon, Maj Tom, what is not an abstraction (good point that Christian is an abstraction as well) are the Christians at the southern border aiding and abetting the invasion. I know they are Christians because they're adorned in their Halloween costumes for all to see. Those aren't Marxist feeding the hordes.Those are bonified religious organizations that show up daily. Citizens are angry and want to know how they avoid the pooper, scooper laws. Also, just as an aside have you noticed the hordes appear to be above the law in that they are able to commit the crimes of littering and loitering with impunity. Why is this? We have already moved from the rule of law to the barbaric and primitive rule of men. In addition, we have moved from individualism to the more primitive collectivism. This is why no individual in the group/horde is ever singled out for littering or loitering. Most American cities now implement some form of communist style policing where it's rule by consensus instead of the former which was personal responsibility and accountability. This has all come to pass because religion was given the moral high ground and given a respect they have not earned and do not deserve.
There is no "Western World". Citizens in the UK are being imprisoned for thought crimes. We all watched in horror as "Western" countries pistol whipped their citizens for not having a dirty piece of fabric up over their breathing apparatus's. The United States is the only country on earth that matters as it is the only country which ever recognized individual rights. It is truly mankind's only hope and is in the process of transforming from a country founded on the individual to a country founded on the group. This means every man who fought and died in our wars died for absolutely nothing. America is currently at war right now. It is an ideological war. Does the individual have the right to live for his own sake? Can he wake up free focusing on his needs and his own goals and achievements, or is he only allowed to steal snippets of his existence (when no one is looking) as long as the weaklings are'nt clamoring for him to meet their needs. The Christians say no. He must "serve" and "subordinate" himself to the weak, corrupt, diseased, ugly, smelly beasts. He owes them by virtue of the fact that he is not a weak, corrupt, dirty, diseased, ugly, smelly beast.
Dana, I agree we're now in an ideological war. I'm confused by what you wrote about Christians and "weak, corrupt, diseased, ugly, smelly beasts."
I looked at your profile and you seem to be a patriot. I'm a military-retired Vietnam combat veteran, so I consider myself a patriot too. But, the truth is that our leaders have conspired with Satanic globalists to destroy the America we loved and fought for. That America is gone.
Looking toward the future, the Bible says all nations will be part of the end-time beast government, and all will be destroyed by 'the stone that was cut out by no human hand' in Daniel chapter 2.
So, I encourage you to place your faith in God, not in America. Its days are numbered.
Good afternoon, Maj Tom! Thank you so much for your service and your willingness to risk your life for freedom ."Globalist" is an abstract thought and therefore a convenient tool to scapegoat with. The dominant ideology of both the left and the right in the United States is "We are our brother's keeper". The left's version is "We're all in this together", which is the exact same message just worded differently. This is the antithesis of America's founding documents. America's founding fathers built a government which set men free from other men. The Uniparty wants to chain us together. They have no real interest in the U.S. Constitution. Their interests are in the moral teachings of the Christian religion which advocates stealing from the strong to uphold the weak. The more diseased the weak are the more virtuous they become. It's an ideology of moral perversion. It's the reason we see the Christians, not globalist feeding hordes of destructive types sitting atop mounds of filth and garbage in every major U.S. city. It's the reason we see Christians, not globalist down at the southern border aiding and abetting the invasion of the United States. Paul Craig Roberts states "they're only interested in the "wafting". This is where the clouds part and they are wafted to the holy lands, or wherever it is they go to. The total destruction of the United States by this moral perversion does not need to happen. It's all a result of a corrupt mind too cowardly to face existence.
Dana, just as "globalist" is an abstract term, so is the word "Christian." I am a disciple of Yeshua the Messiah, so I am labeled by the word Christian, but I don't know any Christians that identify with any of the things you say Christians advocate.
- I don't support stealing from the strong to support the weak. That sounds like socialism.
- I don't support feeding hordes of destructive types sitting atop mounds of filth and garbage in every major U.S. city.
- I don't support the invasion of the United States across southern border. That's a strategy of anti-American enemies.
- True Christians support morality, not moral perversion.
Those are long range munitions which will definitely raise the stakes higher. But I don't think it's a game changer. Not yet.